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#612492 Out with the old in with the new

Posted by Cshel86 on 21 October 2014 - 01:13 PM

3 years ago nonito was a 118 pound fighter, not a featehrweight. nonito had no business moving up to 126, it was too big for him, and i still think he could be abner mares and leo santa cruz. he should mvoe back down to 122.  dont forget that nonito and other fighters have dropped rigondeaux and hit him with big shots, its not like nonito got totally outclassed, he lost a decision because he tried to go for a 1 punch ko and it didnt ever come. i still think he is a great fighter, he just has finally hit the weigh ceiling. his power is no mroe effective beyond 122. he hit walters with hard shots but it didnt hurt him enough to finish him. at 126 your gonna be fighting guys who are big punchers ho are on the verge of being 130 pounders like orlando salido and mikey garcia. those types of fighters are jsut to big for nonito to fight, and thats what e saw with walters. nonito just couldnt take the power. i give him props for having the balls to fight this guy instead of waiting for a fight against lomachenko.

 

many great fighters have tried to move up in weight and got blasted, its is a possibility whenever a guy decides to move up. tommy hearns went up to middleweight and got knoced out twice viciously. i think its s sign to go back down. you gota remember that the 122 lb division wasnt that stacked, so moving up to the highly competetive 126 division and then fighting one of the hard hitters, thats a lot to be able to overcome. id like to see rigondeaux move up to 126. look what happened to gamboa. i give them props for having the balls to do it, it doesnt mean their abilities are questionable. every fighter is not floyd mayweather or manny pacquiao.

Donaire was big enough for these weight classes, til he got in with a bigger guy....that's the way the cookie crumbles. Everybody that he's fought over the years, have been smaller than him. That Mathebula dude and V-12 were tall, but weight wise, Donaire was the bigger guy. 

 

We can't say that Donaire can't compete at FW, because he ran into a bigger FW. In every division, you're gonna be bigger than some guys and some guys are gonna be bigger than you. We can't say that he had no business being in there with Walters because of the size (weight), but he fought a smaller Rigo a weight class lower, and nobody had a problem with it. 

 

Thing is, there is a limit, and Donaire found it....as you mentioned. I still think he could beat guys like Mares and maybe....just maybe Gamboa...hell, maybe even Garcia...maybe. At the end of the day, it's about skill....that beats size (most days out of the week). 

 

I say that he could beat those guys, because you have to think about it this way....have those guys been in with guys with Donaire's speed who lands at weird angles? Not really. We've seen Mares get buried by a slow counterpunch, and we've seen Garcia down a slow ugly punch at the hands of that skeletor lookin' motherf*cker a couple of fights ago. Gamboa's chin can be tapped, and we've seen him go down because he's careless as hell. 

 

Now, I'm not saying that Donaire has THAT much pop at FW, but consider the following....he DID hurt Walters a few times last weekend....it wasn't a complete blowout like most are trying to make it into. Gotta love boxing fans....a guy that they can't stand, gets beat, and suddenly, their opponent who pulled off the W, gets all of these embellished accolades. 

 

Again, Donaire DID hurt Walters a few times, but he neglected the body...classic Donaire....always looking for that ONE big shot to change the fight or end it...meanwhile, the other guys is out hustling him. Honestly, he and Walters fought kinda stupid in a few patches of that fight...Donaire just paid for his mistakes. 

 

You make great points about the bigger guys in each division, so true. At the end of the day, skills can trump that, if the big guy isn't careful. A perfectly timed punch with juuuust enough pressure, can hurt anybody or end the fight....so a TKO is comprised of more than just power and size. Donaire can land at crazy angles at times, which can serve as trouble for guys like Mares, Gamboa, and Garcia. 


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#612642 Quick Thoughts

Posted by mrchitown on 29 October 2014 - 06:52 PM

We both peeped that....Floyd aint about to leave no money on the table like that. Lol
 
I can definitely see Bradley being a thorn in Floyd's ass....as he was in the Provodnikov fight, lol. As you mentioned, its a style thing when it comes down to a Floyd/Bradley fight. 
 
The only star that Haymon's created...is Al Haymon! :lol: You're right though, I've been bitching about this for years....promoters have failed at marketing these guys the way they should be marketed. I believe I opened a thread about this last year, concerning the lack of agents who are willing to step up and marktet their fighter outside of the sport. 
 
For instance, why aren't some of these guys modeling (no homo). I mean shit, Broner and Garcia wear enough Gucci to be model their products. I see that Garcia has his DSG merchandise, but hell, the stuff looks kinda cheap. I would buy some of it, but not the majority of it. 
 
Guys like Sturm, Haye, the Klitz bros, and a few others are huge stars in their countries....why don't we have that here? Ben replied, saying that most of these promoters and agents know better, when it comes to spreading their fighters thin. 
 
Unfortunately, it's easier to keep a fighter focused if you pay him bit by bit, instead of giving him another opportunity to make money and end up getting distracted while doing so. My thing is, enough of these guys are distracted by doing dumb shit outside of the ring, so why not focus on something else and make more money?
 
PS: That arena looks to be a beast, when they're done with it. Sheesh, for Vegas and it's economy to be as shitty as they claim, they sure aren't wasting any time building new things. Lol


Of course he isn't, especially when there isn't too many fighters around who can beat him lol.

TB against Mayweather is a big fight to us hardcore fans, I don't see how anyone could get mad if that fight gets made. What he lacks in punching power he makes up for in sheer determination. I would love to see how Mayweather at his age handles a guy whose will to win is just as strong as his.

That was an eye opener to me because besides Floyd, to some fans Haymon hasn't much to show for. But I think with the boxing landscape being what it is, he's got the major players and the exciting fighters that's pushing the sport forward. Now them being stars is different. I think Danny and Broner are the ones he's banking on the most and Broner, love him or hate him was on his way to being a star until he got knocked slightly off track against Maidana. But even now when AB does something good or bad, it's in all the headlines. Not just boxing but all headlines.

Look at the shows that Froch, Kessler, the Klitschko bros, etc have fought on. The promoter built those shows into events and not regular fights. It looked over the top to us Americans but that's because we're not used to seeing boxing shows on that level. The closest we've gotten to that level was a prime Don King, he was a scumbag but he knew how to put a fight card together.

Those fighters I named aren't even seen as the stars in boxing but yet the stars like Hopkins and Mayweather have never fought in front of 40-60k and had those massive(you know theynlike to use that word in the UK lol) entrances and theatrics to go along with it. The promoters and managers today here in the U.S. are all about the bottom line. In that respect I think that the Arum's and De La Hoya's and Shaw's etc could learn from those other promoters about marketing a fighter and putting together top notch cards.

You would think the way these young guys like Swift and AB promote themselves that they would have endorsement deals, but they don't for the most part. But I think it's a necessity in this era to have an outside stream of income cuz just boxing ain't gonna do it for most of these boxers.

Vegas been claiming they hurting for money for a while now but it never seems that way. To me it seems that the avg Nevada resident is hurting. I hear jobs are hard to come by out there....but that arena does look nice, when they get it open I won't be shocked if Mayweather blesses it with his presence.
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#612640 Distasteful Post Fight Interviews

Posted by flazi on 29 October 2014 - 01:02 PM

Just watched chavez vs the surgeon again (for the 50th time lol).  This time i focused on the post fight interviews and i don't think i have heard chavez so disgraceful.  he blamed the ref, the same ref that gifted him the taylor fight.  He totally downplayed the knockdown and his opponents skills.  only other fighter i can think of that is just as disgraceful post fight is casamayor.


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#612639 I think I figured out Floyd's May surprise?

Posted by Dolimite on 29 October 2014 - 09:12 AM

It's like if Floyd's numbers don't drop within 2 weeks, guys just start making up numbers and posting them. I also find it funny that nobody seems to care about how low Manny's numbers are, and at this point, they're just waiting for Floyd's numbers to drop as well. Lol

 

In my opinion, that 2.2M that he pulled in with the Canelo fight, balances everything out. Folks are acting like the whole Showtime network is gonna crumble because they're paying Floyd $32M per fight, and his numbers aren't consistently hitting over 1M.

 

Let me see....the Guerrero fight (around 800K), the Canelo fight (2.2M), Maidana 1 (925k)....those are some pretty good numbers for a network who played second fiddle to HBO for YEARS and couldn't sell any PPVs. 

 

Folks forget that Showtime is owned by CBS...c'mon now....Thhhhhe CBS. Boxing aint hurtin' it's money at all....and most people don't pay for Showtime because of boxing...there are actually shows and movies that air on the network, ya know? Lol

What was the PPV of Shane vs. Pac and Pac vs. Rios..... I am still waiting on those. shit did any of his Marquez fight crack a million. On second thought, what was Pac's highest PPV? 

 

If CBS or Showtime were losing money off of Floyd, they would of dropped his ass. Between now and May is a long time, so we can see some viable opponents emerge as Floyd's next opponent. ABK (anyone but Khan), I just can't stand Khan. Now since HBO, GB and TR are now friends, I wonder who Bob has lined up for Pac after Chris, if he gets past Chris (which he should). 


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#612638 Quick Thoughts

Posted by Dolimite on 29 October 2014 - 09:05 AM

I just don't get it....maybe something happened off camera. One of them alluded to the fact that Floyd threatened to have him beat up, if he chose not fight back....something in that neighborhood. Either way it goes, they both are looking like some clowns right now. I think I remember seeing that sign on his gym, but I may be wrong. 

 

I think you said it as well....Floyd may very well fight on after these last two fights. It's just too much money to walk away from. Well no, I'll put it this way, it's a loss for promoters who want to put their guy in against him and hope to erase that "0" on his record. 

 

At this point, I'd have to ask who's going to be marketable enough to keep him around. I like when an opponent is able to hold his own during the buildup of a fight...not the A-side carrying the opponent. 

 

Anyway, I like Thurman's chances and of course GGG's (though that fight may not happen). Are we speaking of that fictive stadium that Bob was talking about, or is there some truth to the MGM building a new arena???

 

GGG needs to see SOG before Floyd or anyone else that is in a lower weight class. You know what happen off camera? Not a damn thing! Ego and opportunity came knocking and since they weren't going to be major boxing stars, they ran to the courts. I doubt Floyd would be that damn stupid but then again he does spend his money on making THOTs stars so... These cats want a lump sum. Boxing is a blood sport if you are a boxer how the hell are you going to let anyone threaten to beat you up? C'mon on MAN!

Yea floyd is going to fight there in 2016

 

I hope not. 

Walters is 126. Crawford is 135. I think we see Crawford move up to 140-147 before Walters gets to 135. Hate to be the deliverer of bad news but that fight may never happen.

Way to kill a dream Professor!

 

We both peeped that....Floyd aint about to leave no money on the table like that. Lol

 

I can definitely see Bradley being a thorn in Floyd's ass....as he was in the Provodnikov fight, lol. As you mentioned, its a style thing when it comes down to a Floyd/Bradley fight. 

 

The only star that Haymon's created...is Al Haymon! :lol: You're right though, I've been bitching about this for years....promoters have failed at marketing these guys the way they should be marketed. I believe I opened a thread about this last year, concerning the lack of agents who are willing to step up and marktet their fighter outside of the sport. 

 

For instance, why aren't some of these guys modeling (no homo). I mean shit, Broner and Garcia wear enough Gucci to be model their products. I see that Garcia has his DSG merchandise, but hell, the stuff looks kinda cheap. I would buy some of it, but not the majority of it. 

 

Guys like Sturm, Haye, the Klitz bros, and a few others are huge stars in their countries....why don't we have that here? Ben replied, saying that most of these promoters and agents know better, when it comes to spreading their fighters thin. 

 

Unfortunately, it's easier to keep a fighter focused if you pay him bit by bit, instead of giving him another opportunity to make money and end up getting distracted while doing so. My thing is, enough of these guys are distracted by doing dumb shit outside of the ring, so why not focus on something else and make more money?

 

PS: That arena looks to be a beast, when they're done with it. Sheesh, for Vegas and it's economy to be as shitty as they claim, they sure aren't wasting any time building new things. Lol

I have always said Bradley would give Floyd fits, I still want to see that match up. It would be a boxing fans dream. Bradley has great skills and boxing IQ. He can adjust, He ain't knocking no one out but he makes up for it in his other areas. I can't wait to see this fight if it happens. 


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#612631 Broner vs Maidana - Revisited

Posted by klonopinz on 28 October 2014 - 03:55 PM

broner needed to take that loss in order to step up to the next level. he thought his baby skillset was good enough to beat guys like maidana and he was very wrong. he learend that lesson and now hes back at it working his way up against b- guys. i think him vs mathysse would be a great fight. i think he has the chin to take some shots, and i think his overall idea of what he needs to do to win a fight have evolved. i just went back and watched the demarco fight a few days ago and wow he really showed some flashes of brilliance in that one. i hope he doesnt try to stop being the best though, because it seemed like after that loss he realized he isnt the next mayweather and his pitch went from: "im the greatest of my era" to: "i put on a hell of a show whether i get my ass beat or i whoop ass"


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#612629 Broner vs Maidana - Revisited

Posted by sduck on 28 October 2014 - 01:55 PM

I also forgot to mention it was a VERY entertaining fight, and would love to see a rematch.


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#612626 Top Rank Tripleheader 12/13/ (Bradley/Chaves, Korobov/Lee, & Herrera/Bena...

Posted by Cshel86 on 28 October 2014 - 11:29 AM

I got to give props to Bradley, he could've fought a low caliber opponent and just picked up an easy win but he went the other route and is taking on solid competition. Idk what this does for Bradley but maybe he's trying to get a few solid wins under his belt and then challenge someone for a world title.

I wouldn't be surprised if we saw some dirty tactics applied by Chaves, he's so good at it that I wonder sometimes was it intentional or unintentional. Bradley and that big ass dome should make him second guess being dirty though lol

I don't like not knowing what happened and it irks me to read about what happened before I watch it lol. I always figure something out so I'm going to figure out how I'm going to work theese two cards into my schedule.....Arum finally does a good thing but at the wrong moment lol

He could've eaaaaasily taken an easy fight for an easy payday. Now that I think about it, I can't really remember Bradley being in an easy fight...maybe two. 

 

This Chaves guy just urks me nowadays...maybe it's his midget frame and that goofy Mark Dacascos look on his face.

 

And yes, Bob finally does a good thing, and yet, he still found a way to create division and confusion! LOL 


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#612625 Broner vs Maidana - Revisited

Posted by Cshel86 on 28 October 2014 - 11:12 AM

Exposed is the most over used word in sports. He didn't get exposed. Broner lost, that's it that's all. A lot of fans make emotional statements instead of using common sense. That fight was closer then fans think it was and he showed more in that loss then he did in any of his previous wins.

As fans we have to get out of the habit of saying an athlete has been exposed after a loss, and we have to stop saying an athlete is done after a loss. A fighter loses once and then it's oh he's done, he needs to hang em up. Or we hear he lost he got exposed. That mentality is a reason why fighters and promoters don't take risks because of the idiotic perception that a loss calls for the end of a career or they got exposed.

Couldn't agree more...espeeeeecially with the last paragraph. Us boxing fans feel powerless, but we're actually victims of our own opinions. You're right, that mentality is the reason that promoters don't take risks and match their fighters tough. 

 

We complain about how horrible matchups are, but then we fuck around and give a god-awful tripleheader in Garcia/Salka 850k views. Allllll of that pissing & moaning led to 850k views, which is awfully close to 1M views and yet another feather in Showtime's cap...all while feeding us awful cards. :lol:

 

By the way, had anybody else taken the shots that Broner did in the Maidana fight, they would've never met the final bell....I believe he deserves at least that much credit. 


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#612620 Broner vs Maidana - Revisited

Posted by mrchitown on 27 October 2014 - 06:59 PM

Exposed is the most over used word in sports. He didn't get exposed. Broner lost, that's it that's all. A lot of fans make emotional statements instead of using common sense. That fight was closer then fans think it was and he showed more in that loss then he did in any of his previous wins.

As fans we have to get out of the habit of saying an athlete has been exposed after a loss, and we have to stop saying an athlete is done after a loss. A fighter loses once and then it's oh he's done, he needs to hang em up. Or we hear he lost he got exposed. That mentality is a reason why fighters and promoters don't take risks because of the idiotic perception that a loss calls for the end of a career or they got exposed.
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#612617 Top Rank Tripleheader 12/13/ (Bradley/Chaves, Korobov/Lee, & Herrera/Bena...

Posted by klonopinz on 27 October 2014 - 04:27 PM

i looked at some upcomign boxing shcedules and hbo has gabe rsoado vs david lemieux on its own at barclays on dec 6. im guessing itll be on boxing after dark? i guess james kirkland did some hood shit and fucked up that opportunity.


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#612606 Kell"Special K" Brook vs Keith"One Time"Thurman

Posted by AZWildCat on 26 October 2014 - 11:21 AM

Karass fight chi
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#612605 Broner vs Maidana - Revisited

Posted by mgrover on 26 October 2014 - 09:41 AM

he did get exposed though lol, hes meant to be this 3 weight class champion, and that night he believed his own hype, he under estimated Maidana for one and that was his downfall, both his boxing ability and his professionalism was exposed. Mainly his inactivity in the ring in some rounds, and his lack of lateral movement. I wonder was he under prepared? I don't know


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#612568 Floyd vs Cotto has to be next

Posted by sduck on 23 October 2014 - 10:43 PM

I think Cotto beats GGG


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#612550 Golden Boy Tripleheader 12/13 (Khan/Alexander, Andrade/Charlo, & Thurman/...

Posted by klonopinz on 23 October 2014 - 10:18 AM

this is the charlo that beat rosado. jermell. jermall is the one who wants to fight k9, who rpeviously was set to fight molina before he got detained. i believe adrade's speed will shock charlo. i think that right hook is is dangerous weapon because he is a converted right hander. his jab will be more potent and so will his hook, plus he has experience beating martirosyan, who is better and more experienced than charlo. lara couldnt even decision vanes. andrade edged him out and showed he can win rounds. i think charlo is in for a rude aakening. this is his first b level fighter. gabriel was c at best. and none of his opponents had ability of andrade.


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#612546 I think I figured out Floyd's May surprise?

Posted by mrchitown on 22 October 2014 - 06:50 PM

IMO ppvs the last few yrs have been inflated. In many cases (this included)  showtime  and HBO do not give official #s anymore.  The #s come through leaks or preliminary estimates.   And as I stated this fight really didnt have the hype behind it.  925 always seemed high


Right that's your opinion but it isn't a fact. Unless I see a credible individual who puts the numbers lower then what's been stated then it's going to stay what it is, just a rumor.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but facts is facts. The same leaks you spoke of is applied to the rumor you speak of. That 772k came through an unreliable source and from a leak.
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#612545 I think I figured out Floyd's May surprise?

Posted by mgrover on 22 October 2014 - 06:35 PM

IMO ppvs the last few yrs have been inflated. In many cases (this included)  showtime  and HBO do not give official #s anymore.  The #s come through leaks or preliminary estimates.   And as I stated this fight really didnt have the hype behind it.  925 always seemed high

 

i think thats more because promoters dont want them to, while networks dont seem to care, unless it hurts there own investment. Like when they swore Mayweather Guerrero did 1 million views. Showtime didnt wanna look like they handed one the more lucrative contract in all of boxing to have them make no profit lol


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#612542 Quick Thoughts

Posted by mgrover on 22 October 2014 - 04:57 PM

what annoyed me was the little brother talked himself into it and then precedes to get his ass whooped haha

 

Rewatching the whole thing, what Mayweather said, and I quote "You ready to quit, let us know". He gave the kid his chance out, sure it may of been taunting him, but in no way was it imprisonment 


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#612524 Mayweather vs Steven A Smith

Posted by BrutUalBK on 22 October 2014 - 07:00 AM

Rocky's record is more significant than any other record because it is held by a man who happens to be of Caucasian persuasion, it has nothing to do with the significance of being a HW (although that matters), Lopez's record is considered a lesser significant one in this sport because the Draw he has on it taints his unblemished record and leaves that air of doubt that Marciano does not have.

 

It is ok for Smith to talk about Floyd but what isn't ok is when he starts talking about the Promotional aspect of the negotiations between the two without stating the facts and the facts are that Floyd and Manny had contracts in front of them and Pacquiao did not sign when the fight mattered most.

 

If Smith is going to hurl accusations, the least he could do is make sure that his journalistic integrity is intact and that his facts are straight.  The fight between the two of them should've already happened back in 2010 when they both looked unbeatable but the facts are that Manny and Arum DUCKED the fight.


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#612523 Out with the old in with the new

Posted by Cshel86 on 21 October 2014 - 08:38 PM

good post dolimite

Am I the only one who's using the "like" button around here???


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