Jump to content


Photo

Part Muthafuckin 2!!! Ward vs. Kov


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
35 replies to this topic

#21 Cshel86

Cshel86

    "The Meanest Nice Guy"

  • Moderators
  • 18,733 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wherever Greatness is Bred

Posted 06 June 2017 - 09:12 PM

At this point, I hope Ward washes this dude....for the old Gods and the new. Just reading these comments from these idiots that we consider human beings, has gotten disgusting since November. 

 

I mean, if you thought Ward lost, cool. If you don't like him for whatever reason, cool. But, when people stoop so low to take distasteful shots at his family and his beliefs, it gets worse. 

 

Sadly, a lot of these assholes are Kovalev fans, whom is easily become the biggest piece of shit racist in boxing himself. His tasteless disposition is becoming more and more intolerable, and his excuses for losing the fight are tired. 

 

It's fights and situations like this, that brings the ugly out of the sport. We've seen it for years during the Mayweather/Pacquiao era....racism and overall distasteful posts and acts were never on the short end. That train was never late. 

 

I might sound "hoemotional", as Professor used to say, but I've had enough. Call me crazy, but a Kovalev victory next weekend would be the boxing equivalent of a Trump win. All of those racist and demeaning posts, along with Kovalev's history and repeated racist remarks, would be vindicated. I can't live with that. 


  • flazi and Dolimite like this

#22 MaxPayne

MaxPayne

    Junior Welterweight

  • Moderators
  • 1,446 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 06 June 2017 - 10:44 PM

I think the problem that a lot of the "neutral" people have is that Ward and his camp act like there was absolutely no question that they won the fight, which is something of a logical fallacy.

 

Kovalev looked great through the first 5-6 rounds, then Ward was overpowering down the stretch, with Kovalev stealing a round or 2 in the final segments of the fight.

 

I had it 114-113 for Kovalev. It was a close fight and certainly difficult to score, so I'm not in that "robbery" camp. 

 

I believe that it's disingenuous for the Ward camp to act like there was "no question" that they won. They got awarded a very, very debate-able decision and they should consider themselves lucky.

 

I think if the tone was, "The first fight was close and could have gone either way. This time, we're going to set the record straight and leave no doubts whatsoever." then you would have significantly less outrage and anger directed at Ward.

 

Regardless, they're thankfully stepping into the ring again and I think it'll be another very close fight. It's extremely difficult to predict a winner and cliched as it sounds, I think it's about who can execute their strategy first.

 

For Ward, the strategy is simple. He has to start the clinch-fest from Round 1 onward (I'm serious), because Kovalev can't fight in the clinch. He was to make it an ugly, disgusting-to-watch fight from the jump.

 

Kovalev I believe needs multiple knockdowns to win, so for him, the idea is much much simpler. He just has to let his hands go at every opportunity and hope to catch Ward.

 

Can't fucking wait. 



#23 MaxPayne

MaxPayne

    Junior Welterweight

  • Moderators
  • 1,446 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 07 June 2017 - 01:07 AM

This is actually a fight that reminds me of why I love Boxing so much.

 

You have a guy in Ward who is seen as almost pompous in the face of a lot of criticism about getting a "gift" decision.

 

You have a Russian white guy who seems to be on the racially uninformed side of the game/insensitive/whatever.

 

You basically have 2 guys who don't like each other at all and whose fan bases are frothing at the mouth for their respective "champions" to go at it like it's a dog fight.

 

Boxing allows for something like this to happen and it's fucking beautiful. In no other sport are you literally paid to throw down and try to beat the living shit out of another man, unless you consider MMA.

 

(the reason I don't consider MMA is because there are too many ways to disengage...I remember when Paul Daley and Josh Koscheck fought a few years ago...they hated each other, but Koscheck basically lay on Daley for all the rounds and the fight was a stinker)

 

Can't run in Boxing, at least not for 12 rounds. Can't disengage and hold constantly in Boxing. You literally have to fucking fight. You're all alone with another dude who is trying to kill you and you have no one else to fight for you.

 

Just beautiful. Let the killing begin. 



#24 Jack 1000

Jack 1000

    The Consultant

  • Root Admin
  • 10,537 posts

Posted 07 June 2017 - 06:19 AM

Easy Call,

 

This is round 13 of the first fight with another close and debatable decision coming down the pipe.  Ward fights the same way every fight.  Kovalev is talking KO, but I don't think he gets it.  Fair or foul, Ward is winning this if it goes to the cards.

 

Jack

 

PS,  I thought Segay was robbed.  I could accept a close fight. but with Kovalevs' knockdown and early round domination, Ward did not win.  Anywhere from 9-3 to 7-5 for Kovalev would have been fair.  Don't forget Sergay's knockdown.



#25 Jack 1000

Jack 1000

    The Consultant

  • Root Admin
  • 10,537 posts

Posted 07 June 2017 - 06:21 AM

This is actually a fight that reminds me of why I love Boxing so much.

 

You have a guy in Ward who is seen as almost pompous in the face of a lot of criticism about getting a "gift" decision.

 

You have a Russian white guy who seems to be on the racially uninformed side of the game/insensitive/whatever.

 

You basically have 2 guys who don't like each other at all and whose fan bases are frothing at the mouth for their respective "champions" to go at it like it's a dog fight.

 

Boxing allows for something like this to happen and it's fucking beautiful. In no other sport are you literally paid to throw down and try to beat the living shit out of another man, unless you consider MMA.

 

(the reason I don't consider MMA is because there are too many ways to disengage...I remember when Paul Daley and Josh Koscheck fought a few years ago...they hated each other, but Koscheck basically lay on Daley for all the rounds and the fight was a stinker)

 

Can't run in Boxing, at least not for 12 rounds. Can't disengage and hold constantly in Boxing. You literally have to fucking fight. You're all alone with another dude who is trying to kill you and you have no one else to fight for you.

 

Just beautiful. Let the killing begin. 

 

Ward though has never been a go to war guy,

 

He muscles, low-blows, elbows holds, and throws sneaky inside shots.  He won't let Kovalev do what he needs to do to win, and that is knock Ward the fuck out.

 

Jack


  • MaxPayne likes this

#26 Jack 1000

Jack 1000

    The Consultant

  • Root Admin
  • 10,537 posts

Posted 07 June 2017 - 06:34 AM

Kovalev I believe needs multiple knockdowns to win, so for him, the idea is much much simpler. He just has to let his hands go at every opportunity and hope to catch Ward.

 

 

This I believe.  Kovalev will not be treated fairly because of Ward being the last Olympic gold medalist, HBO's media daring, Max Kellerman's gay-lover,  you name it.  Since 9-11, there has been a very strong backlash against non-American people and athletes,  Especially by all American judges, which Nevada is using once again.  Get neutral judges, and Kovalev has a better chance of scorecard fairness.

 

Much the same way that Golovkin is likely to be robbed against Canelo, because Canelo is the only star that Delahoya has left, and his Mexican fan base depends on him for revenue.  Canelo can't afford another loss.  HBO and Max Kellerman do not want their "Pom Pom" star losing, because that hurts the American establishment in boxing,  Rock Nation is shit without Andre Ward.  What's to say a little "Uncle Sam" green coming James' Prince's way won't help Ward in the scoring?

 

Jack



#27 Cshel86

Cshel86

    "The Meanest Nice Guy"

  • Moderators
  • 18,733 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wherever Greatness is Bred

Posted 07 June 2017 - 08:30 AM

Easy Call,

 

This is round 13 of the first fight with another close and debatable decision coming down the pipe.  Ward fights the same way every fight.  Kovalev is talking KO, but I don't think he gets it.  Fair or foul, Ward is winning this if it goes to the cards.

 

Jack

 

PS,  I thought Segay was robbed.  I could accept a close fight. but with Kovalevs' knockdown and early round domination, Ward did not win.  Anywhere from 9-3 to 7-5 for Kovalev would have been fair.  Don't forget Sergay's knockdown.

C'mon Jack, this doesn't make much sense. 

 

If a fight is close, then how could it be deemed a robbery? Rios/Abril was a robbery. De La Hoya/Sturm was a robbery. Wiiliams/Lara was robbery. Malinaggi/Diaz 1 was a robbery. Whitaker/Chavez was a robbery. Lopez/Salido 2 was well on it's way to being a robbery before Salido stopped Lopez. Pac/JMM 3 was a robbery. Ward/Kovalev was not a robbery. 

 

Anytime you get into 7-5 round situation, there's always room for the fight to go the other way, it's been proven over and over again in the sport. Had it not been for the knockdown, we would've been looking at a 7-5 or 115-113 affair anyway. All 3 judges had the cards the same. Now, it all depends on which rounds they gave Ward and which ones they gave Kovalev. 


  • flazi likes this

#28 Cshel86

Cshel86

    "The Meanest Nice Guy"

  • Moderators
  • 18,733 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wherever Greatness is Bred

Posted 07 June 2017 - 08:49 AM

 

This I believe.  Kovalev will not be treated fairly because of Ward being the last Olympic gold medalist, HBO's media daring, Max Kellerman's gay-lover,  you name it.  Since 9-11, there has been a very strong backlash against non-American people and athletes,  Especially by all American judges, which Nevada is using once again.  Get neutral judges, and Kovalev has a better chance of scorecard fairness.

 

Much the same way that Golovkin is likely to be robbed against Canelo, because Canelo is the only star that Delahoya has left, and his Mexican fan base depends on him for revenue.  Canelo can't afford another loss.  HBO and Max Kellerman do not want their "Pom Pom" star losing, because that hurts the American establishment in boxing,  Rock Nation is shit without Andre Ward.  What's to say a little "Uncle Sam" green coming James' Prince's way won't help Ward in the scoring?

 

Jack

Jack, I typically agree with you in most of your posts, but it seems as though the "business" said of boxing that we all hate but have grown to understand, is being overlooked. Now, I do understand there's considerable bias in judging big fights like this, but that's not always the reason.

 

Ward being the last Olympic Gold Medalist, has NOTHING to do with the judges giving him the decision. We've been saying this for a while now and history has proven it; the most marketable fighter usually gets the nod. 

 

In this case, Ward is NOT the more marketable of the two. Kovalev has come to the US and made a HUGE name for himself. The biggest question of Ward/Kovalev 1 was...."who is going to move on to make the sport the most money or at least give it more attention?" Ward doesn't fit this at all. 

 

Throughout Ward's career, he does what most Goosen fighters do, they disappear until a fight's announce, they do the pressers, disappear to train, then show up on fight night. Ward's been doing the same since he left Goosen. 

 

Kovalev on the other hand, has been pushed HARD by HBO and NBC. Which fight makes the most money, Kovalev vs Stevenson or Ward vs Stevenson? More than likely, Kovalev vs Stevenson. What if GGG wants to pull a Hopkins and jump to 175, which will be the bigger fight, GGG vs Ward or GGG vs Kovalev? Probably GGG vs Kovalev. 

 

Had Kovalev finished what he started after the knockdown, then he and his camp and the media would be signing a different tune, but the "wrong guy" won, so everybody's up in arms. Kovalev actually had to fight a guy who knows how to keep him thinking, Hopkins couldn't do after he got dropped in round 1. 

 

Again, I'm not saying that you're wrong, but there's more to Ward's victory, than the whole "American judges" stuff. And yes, if GGG drops Canelo and can't finish him, then he'll meet the same fate, justifiably. Ward isn't a huge seller, so to me, he was awarded that decision in an honest manner, mainly because he stayed in there and fought back. 

 

I mean, if you want to take it further and bring up the Pac/Bradley 1 "robbery", then we can. We all know that was mostly Arum's doing and Manny's lackluster performance that night. Wasn't Manny threatening to sit out of the 3rd JMM fight and almost tried to leave TR? Yep. 

 

What happened? He got in there and with Bradley and they took the fight from him because he allowed it be as close as it was. Didn't Floyd just make $32M for the first time ever in the sport against Cotto just a month prior? Why allow Manny to beat an undefeated fighter and ask for more money in his next fight, since Floyd made as much as he did? "Oh no", Im sure Arum was thinking...."Let me keep this guy honest....humble him....allow him to "lose" this Bradley fight, so I can tell him, "Hey kid, you just lost your last fight. The money you're asking for, isn't out there". 

 

Again, between Ward and Kovalev, the Russian Krusher is THE bigger draw of the two, so he should have won....if the judges were in such a "giving" mood that night. 



#29 Cshel86

Cshel86

    "The Meanest Nice Guy"

  • Moderators
  • 18,733 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wherever Greatness is Bred

Posted 07 June 2017 - 08:58 AM

 

Ward though has never been a go to war guy,

 

He muscles, low-blows, elbows holds, and throws sneaky inside shots.  He won't let Kovalev do what he needs to do to win, and that is knock Ward the fuck out.

 

Jack

So what is Ward supposed to, just stand there and slug with Kovalev and give him chances to knock him out??? Jack, I'm really beginning to think that you and Lampley share a "Gatti" list....and I know how much you despise Lampley, so I'm confused here. :lol:



#30 Cshel86

Cshel86

    "The Meanest Nice Guy"

  • Moderators
  • 18,733 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wherever Greatness is Bred

Posted 07 June 2017 - 09:11 AM

I think the problem that a lot of the "neutral" people have is that Ward and his camp act like there was absolutely no question that they won the fight, which is something of a logical fallacy.

 

Kovalev looked great through the first 5-6 rounds, then Ward was overpowering down the stretch, with Kovalev stealing a round or 2 in the final segments of the fight.

 

I had it 114-113 for Kovalev. It was a close fight and certainly difficult to score, so I'm not in that "robbery" camp. 

 

I believe that it's disingenuous for the Ward camp to act like there was "no question" that they won. They got awarded a very, very debate-able decision and they should consider themselves lucky.

 

I think if the tone was, "The first fight was close and could have gone either way. This time, we're going to set the record straight and leave no doubts whatsoever." then you would have significantly less outrage and anger directed at Ward.

 

Regardless, they're thankfully stepping into the ring again and I think it'll be another very close fight. It's extremely difficult to predict a winner and cliched as it sounds, I think it's about who can execute their strategy first.

 

For Ward, the strategy is simple. He has to start the clinch-fest from Round 1 onward (I'm serious), because Kovalev can't fight in the clinch. He was to make it an ugly, disgusting-to-watch fight from the jump.

 

Kovalev I believe needs multiple knockdowns to win, so for him, the idea is much much simpler. He just has to let his hands go at every opportunity and hope to catch Ward.

 

Can't fucking wait. 

I mean, what is he supposed to do? Do what Bradley did? Say that he has to "go back and watch the tape to see if he won the fight or not"? Eat himself into a lard ass stupor, put on 40+ lbs and consider suicide because fans hated the decision? 

 

I'm glad he's handling it the way he is. He's said on numerous occasions that he felt the fight close and won't be upset if observers felt it wont the other way. 

 

Maybe he's just trolling the hell outta Team Kovalev and not giving them or the media the reaction that they're looking for. Any yes, I can't fuckin wait...10 days til they clear this shit up! 

 

Me and the fellas have our annual Braves game parking lot tailgate every June and July, but we missed last July. I'll be at the game the night before, then I'll probably have to bowl with a hangover the next morning for my job outing, then the fight fight is the same night. Needless to say, I'll probably be in the bed all day on Sunday. :lol:


  • flazi and MaxPayne like this




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users