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Pac vs. Horn on ESPN


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#11 BrutUalBK

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 11:31 PM

What short memories people have.

 

I'm talking about fights as far back as 2001, when he fought Ledwaba for the IBF strap on 2 weeks notice and beat the shit out of him in 6 rounds. 

 

The stretch from 2001 to 2008 was phenomenal, exciting to watch and full of classic fights. Pacquiao won, lost, won again and did his thing in style. 

 

I can watch Pacquiao fights over and over again.

 

While I enjoy watching highlights of Floyd fights, the only fights that I've watched several times over are the Jose Luis Castillo fights and the Maidana fights, because of the amount of action that the opponent was bringing.

 

Pacquiao's entire body of work is a lot bigger and significant altogether than just looking at his fight with Floyd.

 

Yes, Floyd won and is the better overall Boxer. Everyone knew that going into the fight because of how matchups work. No one is arguing that.

 

However the point that I do strongly believe in is that Pacquiao has earned the right to take whatever matchups are put in front of him, even if the risk level is not commensurate with his fighting ability and talent.

 

Just for the sake of clarity, Terrence Crawford is one of my "elite level fighters" alongside Andre Ward, Rigondeaux, Chocolatito and Vasyl Lomachenko. 

 

If Pacquiao were to fight Crawford, then he would get that ass taxed because Crawford is that good. Understandably, as Crawford may well retire him in the ring, from a risk perspective you would of course ask for 20 to 25 million.

 

Know why ? Because after that spanking, he wouldn't even get Jeff Horn level paydays. Dollars and cents, that's what matters in the twilight of your career.

 

One last point:

 

We will never again have a 8 division champion in the history of Boxing, unless another once-in-a-generation talent comes along.

Pac has already had his share of "Passes" and here you are trying to give him another one vs Horn.  BS, that time has long passed for him receiving passes because he used those up already facing Bradley 3 times, Marquez 4 times, David Diaz, and his sketchy timed matches vs Shane (waiting until 2 years later after Floyd and Mora beat him and he looked washed up) although Shane agreed to face him at the CW they asked for of 142 after Mosley's KO of Margarito and they said no; how about Manny's constant insistence of CW fights with Cotto for Miguel's title and after Cotto was brutalized at the loaded gloves of Margarito and taking on Morales after he got beaten by Raheem and looked totally drained by the 3rd fight.  Or that farce of draining Oscar and not allowing him to rehydrate.

 

Jesus, I could go on and on......and we all gotta know by now that there was something highly suspicious about that Clottey fight, please don't get me started.

 

This dude was a Sham and a Scam, obviously he must have been juicing because once he was called on it by Mayweather he made not taking a simple blood draw an issue for stopping the most important fight of that time when they were both at their primes and his KO ratio all but totally disappeared after he was asked to routinely draw blood for subsequent bouts.

 

As far as Floyd, then it's obvious you don't find the Gatti fight entertaining, the Cotto fight entertaining, Corley fight entertaining, the Ndou fight entertaining, the Corrales fight entertaining, I could throw a few others in there but something has really got to be wrong with your eyesight if you think those fights were boring.

 

Besides, whenever someone says "Floyd is boring", I often reflect that there are two fighters in the ring and if the other guy has been totally neutralized on what he could do then, wouldn't that make the other guy boring?

Case in point, Floyd vs Manny!!  Floyd did his thing as always, all the Manny faithful was the ones saying he was going to be throwing combinations and KO Mayweather and when it popped off, he was totally ineffective aka BORING!!


Edited by BrutUalBK, 19 June 2017 - 11:33 PM.


#12 MaxPayne

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 11:34 PM

I concede that Floyd more readily took on challenges as compared to Manny Pacquiao from 2008 onward.

 

When Floyd was coming up, I would say that the fights he was in were carefully selected, but the training wheels came off for him much faster than for say, DLH.

 

Things that I had an issue with were the weight that he fought Marquez and Canelo at, although I doubt that fighting at 140 lbs. and 154 lbs. would have made much of a difference in either of those fights. 

 

I would have certainly loved to have seen the Paul Williams fight, but that fight would not have brought in the requisite revenue that Mayweather desired. 

 

But yes, to be fair, I do concede the point that Mayweather wasn't as carefully managed as other fighters. 

 

He was that good, that no risk was too big. 



#13 MaxPayne

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 11:37 PM

When have I ever claimed that Floyd and Manny were on the same level ? 

 

They're not. Never were and never will be. 

 

Jesus, people just stay looking for arguments where there's none to be found.

 

The central case I'm making is that Manny, steroids or not, was a great and entertaining fighter who gave us a lot of exciting bouts.

 

He won some and lost some, but by and large he has a career that any fighter would be proud of. 

 

Given that he and Floyd were never on the same level, he has more "leeway" regarding soft touches than Floyd.

 

You guys are mad that Pacquiao has a lot of love from fans all over the world. Why ? Why does it matter, given that Floyd has more money, an unblemished record and is 1-0 in their head-to-head ? 



#14 MaxPayne

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 11:40 PM

It's the same shit with motherfuckers who claim that Barry Bonds wasn't shit without steroids.

 

Bonds and Griffey Jr. are the 2 greatest natural Baseball talents I've ever seen. 

 

Know what made Bonds such a great hitter beyond just power ? He had the vision of a hawk and plate discipline like you've never seen.

 

He was a 100% First Ballot Hall of Famer long before he even went to the Giants and guess what, EVERYONE (and all the pitchers) were juicing.

 

Yes, it's very likely that Pacquiao took steroids. News flash: plenty of fighters have taken steroids, methamphetamines and all kinds of other shit.

 

None of them have won titles in 8 divisions. 



#15 MaxPayne

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 11:42 PM

Lastly, the Gatti and Corrales fights were in fact exciting, but since his move up to Welterweight, I don't really find any of those fights worth multiple viewings.

 

The Manny fights of old had him getting into firefights with guys and had more of that Gatti - Ward vibe, which is why they're fun to watch.

 

If I wanted to watch 1-sided beat downs, I would stick with watching fat bitches swinging on each other in Worldstar videos.

 

I like watching high volume competitive matchups where both guys are bringing it. That was Floyd all the way through to 140 lbs. and not much thereafter.



#16 mgrover

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 10:38 AM

its mayweather vs pac topics all over again :P



#17 Dolimite

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 11:00 AM

8 division champion? My dick just snorted. That was bullshit and anyone with boxing sense knows it. How can you be a champ in a division you never weighed in?
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#18 mgrover

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 03:36 PM

8 division champion? My dick just snorted. That was bullshit and anyone with boxing sense knows it. How can you be a champ in a division you never weighed in?

 

Technically you don't have to weigh in at the limit, just anywhere above the weight class below. Like Cotto did with the middleweight title.



#19 mgrover

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 04:01 PM

Just saw the article at the front about the espn series, just like pbc matching there dudes up with nobodies early was pointless, so is this



#20 BrutUalBK

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 07:46 PM

I concede that Floyd more readily took on challenges as compared to Manny Pacquiao from 2008 onward.

 

When Floyd was coming up, I would say that the fights he was in were carefully selected, but the training wheels came off for him much faster than for say, DLH.

 

Things that I had an issue with were the weight that he fought Marquez and Canelo at, although I doubt that fighting at 140 lbs. and 154 lbs. would have made much of a difference in either of those fights. 

 

I would have certainly loved to have seen the Paul Williams fight, but that fight would not have brought in the requisite revenue that Mayweather desired. 

 

But yes, to be fair, I do concede the point that Mayweather wasn't as carefully managed as other fighters. 

 

He was that good, that no risk was too big. 

What fights were supposedly "carefully" selected as you put it??

 

You had issues with the JMM fight, which later on JMM was at 147 anyway.....so why should that be an issue?

 

Canelo and Oscar were so sure that he could beat Floyd that they even said they'd fight him at 150, Floyd gave them the benefit of the doubt and took it at 152; so why have beef with Mayweather about that??

 

Your line about Paul Williams fight is almost slightly stating that the only reason it never happened because there wasn't enough money in it, thus and ultimately or cloakingly blaming Floyd for it not happening when here is what Mr. Paul WIlliams have to say about that:

 

 

At the first part of your point you say he "Carefully selected" his fights but then later you say he "wasn't as carefully managed".

 

Which is it?  Prove the first part and show us how it is that he was somehow able to control Bob Arum and make Arum "carefully select" or "carefully manage" his fights??

I'm waiting to hear this one badly..........................zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz






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