"Not everybody fighting is TV worthy at this point, and I think some fans are seeing that. And you know what? You just don't have those stars like you used to. You have a couple here and there, but Randy, Chuck, Tito, St. Pierre and Matt Hughes, they were like rock stars when they entered the arena. You just don't have that on a day in and day out basis from a lot of these fighters," stated world-class trainer Ron Frazier, who shared his thoughts on the current state of the UFC and much more. Check it out!
PC: We have had so many conversations about the popularity of the UFC. Not so much the sport of MMA, because I think the sport itself is in a good place, but do you see the UFC starting to become a little stagnant?
RF: A little bit. You can't constantly grow in any sport all the time. If you have 5, 6, or 7 years of growth, there is going to be a leveling off period; a period where you step back. Obviously the UFC has a lot of ambition and they are doing more and more shows, so they lost a little bit of that specialty to it. When they threw a show, especially pay-per-views every other month, then it was something like, "Yeah, I haven't seen this guys," because you only got to see so many in a year. But when you're throwing 12 pay-per-views and you have all these other Fight Nights and you're doing 45 shows in a year, it kind of waters down your product. Not everybody fighting is TV worthy at this point, and I think some fans are seeing that. And you know what? You just don't have those stars like you used to. You have a couple here and there, but Randy, Chuck, Tito, St. Pierre and Matt Hughes, they were like rock stars when they entered the arena. You just don't have that on a day in and day out basis from a lot of these fighters.
PC: Do you think the rock star quality is off of these guys because of the way they were built up through TUF and things like that or because of what you said; we see these guys so much that it's not as special as it used to be when they spent 2 months building hype around certain fights?
RF: I think it's a little bit of both. When you look at The Ultimate Fighter show, how many guys have really come out of that show in the last couple of years and been real contenders? Obviously in the first couple of shows, Forrest became a world champion, Rashad Evans became a world champion, and a number of guys became contenders. And part of that is the competition is so much better in the meat part of the UFC. And you're giving guys on-the-job training if they win the show. The season I did the show, Colton Smith has had a really tough time kind of finding his traction in the UFC and part of that was because he was so inexperienced when he won the show.
PC: You used to always say Chael Sonnen was the best at talking his way into title shots. It seems Conor McGregor is the new version of that. I'm not saying he can't fight, but he's bypassing some guys that's been putting in some serious work. Do you think it's a good thing or a bad thing for a guy to get shots based on their ability to verbally sell a fight?
RF: Well, what MMA and the UFC has never had is a solid ranking system where you go, okay, this guy is the #1 contender, he's the mandatory. As much as people malign boxing, there is a system in place. You may not like the system, but the WBA, WBC, IBF and all of those guys have the same formula. You're the #1 contender; within a year, that is the mandatory guy and that person must get a title shot. Well, if you're the mandatory, you can decide to fight, you can decide to wait, or you can take some move aside money if they want to make another fight or whatever it is. With the UFC, it's like, okay, you're going to get a title shot, or nah, you didn't look that good in your last fight although you won it, so we're going to skip you and this guy is going to get a title shot. And then that guy gets injured, so now we don't know who is going to get the title shot.
PC: Speaking of injuries, we are starting to see more and more guys pull out of fights injured. Did you feel eventually the way these guys train that this would be something you couldn't prevent, or the insurance situation now allows them to be able to not fight? What are your thoughts?
RF: I mean, you take a guy like Dominic Cruz, who is a real talented kid, and it's unfortunate that in 2 ½, maybe 3 years now, he's only fought one time because of injuries and it looks like he is now out for a significant time again. Obviously Cain Velasquez is another guy, great fighter, but can't stay healthy. It's tough for the UFC and it's tough for the fighters. And fighters are getting smarter. I tell fighters this, "Don't give away a win because you're hurt." The old adage in sports is kind of "no pain, no gain," which is kind of stupid because there is a difference between the pain of being sore from the grind of the sport and being injured. A lot of these guys over the years have been in fights injured or fought injured and then they lose and it's like, "Hey, you gave it away. You shouldn't have been fighting."
PC: Fighters now understand a loss is detrimental to negotiating new contracts or even take home money.
RF: Absolutely, and what people don't understand is, not only if you are under a 3 to 4 fight contract and you're on your last fight of that deal and you lose, well, you gotta go to the negotiating table with a loss. That's hard, and also half of your money is predicated on if you win. That's a tough pill to swallow because in MMA, you got so many different ways to win a fight and as you saw Sunday evening, you also have some questionable judging. Half of your money can be in the hands of somebody that's not real good at what they do for a living as far as judging a fight.
PC: We gotta tackle the Jon Jones situation. How do you feel they handled that situation of him testing positive for cocaine metabolites?
RF: I think this is a PR nightmare because you know what? They have this personal conduct code and guys have been getting fined and suspended and released for a variety of things. And I go back to this, there was a kid that had a domestic violence charge in the Air Force 5 years ago. And it had already been adjudicated and he had already been punished. He went through whatever he had went through in the Air Force, comes out, and starts his fight career and seems like him and his ex-wife had mended their fences and two days before he was supposed to fight, this comes to light and they release him. It's like, wait a minute, this has already been adjudicated and taken care of. Even in the report that came out, his ex-wife said the report is not accurate on what went down and they moved on from it. It's a horrible situation for anyone to be a part of that and I believe the UFC should have done something about it, but you release this kid and then Jon Jones tests positive for coke and it takes like 2 weeks for anything to happen to him. We see guys testing positive for marijuana and they are getting released and they are getting fined and chastised and this is like, "You know, this is a good thing for him. We're rooting for him and we hope he comes out of this better." It's like, wait a minute, looks like there is a double standard here. It's like he's a money maker for you, so you don't punish him quite as severely.
PC: When you look at the Jones situation, the lawsuit from ex-fighters, and even the Reebok deal, it seems like it's all just a big money grab at this point.
RF: Oh yeah! I think really over the next 18 months is huge for the fighters and how they are going to get paid going forward; the class action lawsuit and all that. What fighters need to do...and I'm not necessarily a proponent for it in everyday life, but I think in the athletic world, unions are a great thing. And I think it's something that fighters need to look into. It probably won't happen because you need people at the top of the food chain to buy into it. They're not gonna do it. If I'm Jon Jones and I'm making $500,000 plus some pay-per-view, and I got my sponsorship deal and I'm making $3, $4, $5 million at the end of the day on a fight, why am I gonna give up that for a guy who is making his debut who is making $8,000 and $8,000 on a card? You gotta get those guys to buy in and if they don't, then you're going to continue to have all of these promotions kind of do what they want with the fighters. Fighters don't have leverage. The only way you make the most money is if you have leverage. Make sure your naming rights is protected and make sure that there is basic standards. I feel personally that no professional MMA fighter should be fighting for less than $1,000 and your medical expenses paid. If you cannot do that for the fighters, then you know what? You should not be putting on a show.
PC: We also talked a few weeks back about name recognition and Scott Coker over at Bellator seems to get that. He recently signed Kimbo Slice, he's been in talks with Cro Cop and Fedor, and also with former fighter and WWE star Roberto Del Rio. Is that a formula for success in your opinion?
RF: I think it's a good formula and we saw that recently when Tito Ortiz fought Stephan Bonnar and they drew 2 million on Spike. I don't think anybody was expecting that. That was kind of a pleasant surprise for them. But what it does is it allows you to showcase your talent one or two ways. You put your really talented big hitter that's going to be the next big thing on those cards or they are facing the Cro Cop's and Tito Ortiz's and they dispatch those guys and then all of a sudden you got 2 million people watching this guy and they go, "Whoa, nobody has done him like that before. We know he might be old or past his prime, but wow, let's keep a lookout for this guy." I think you can build them that way and I think that's a smart way to go about it.
PC: I always appreciate your time and your input. Best of luck to you with everything that you have in the works for this year. Is there anything else you want to add before I let you go?
RF: Thanks for the love. I always appreciate being on FightHype and we gotta do it more often!
[ Follow Percy Crawford on Twitter @MrLouis1ana ]