"When we did it, I remember I was developing things; the punch-punch and shoot, fake the punch and then shoot. We were trying to create opportunities for takedowns by getting guys to worry about a strike. And then of course the guard, which everyone thinks Mark Coleman developed or created, but it was me with Royce Gracie and sitting in the pocket for 36 minutes and just following his hips and pounding on him and literally keeping his hips flat and that’s where ground and pound started. It was me, I developed that," stated UFC hall of famer Ken Shamrock, who talked about the early years of the UFC as well as WWE. Check it out!
PC: You have been around two of the most polarizing figures in sports, Vince McMahon and Dana White. What was it like working with both of those guys for an extensive period of time?
KS: Well, first of all, you gotta respect the journey, and if you take the personal stuff out of it, what they have accomplished, you gotta respect that journey. Vince McMahon bought the company from his dad and saw the pay-per-view thing as a big move and he shut all of the territories down when he got control of the pay-per-view market. He literally just created a monopoly. Dana White came in along with the Fertitta Brothers and they saw an opportunity with this company that was struggling and they couldn’t get it sanctioned; Bob Meyrowitz and SEG, Art Davies and Rorian Gracie. All of those beginning guys just couldn’t get it there. Well, Dana White and the Fertitta Brothers had connections in Vegas and they saw an opportunity to get in and do that and they went to battle themselves in a lot of different areas along with some of us to put our faces out there and show people that we are no different than you are. We are not from prison, we’re not murderers, we’re just out there trying to make a living like everybody else doing something that we enjoy doing. And to be able to do that and watch what Vince did and watch what The Fertitta’s and Dana White did, whether you like who they are as a person or not, you gotta respect that journey.
PC: Looking back at it and fast-forwarding to the present, how different is the UFC from the early years?
KS: The biggest difference is education. There is more education in training now. It’s at an elite level. When we did it, I remember I was developing things; the punch-punch and shoot, fake the punch and then shoot. We were trying to create opportunities for takedowns by getting guys to worry about a strike. And then of course the guard, which everyone thinks Mark Coleman developed or created, but it was me with Royce Gracie and sitting in the pocket for 36 minutes and just following his hips and pounding on him and literally keeping his hips flat and that’s where ground and pound started. It was me, I developed that, and basically what it was was to sit in the pocket, follow the hips, and every time he started to raise his hips up, I would press him down and when his legs slipped down around the waist, I would raise up to punch him. These were all strategically set up through me because I understood how it worked, so I started to develop different things to give me a better opportunity to move in the guard and strike in the guard without getting caught. So I did that in that fight and I think a lot of people started to catch on after that; negate the legs to get the hips flat and be able to strike in the guard. And then they came up with the term ground and pound.
PC: Same question about the WWE, what’s the biggest difference between today’s version as opposed to when you were involved in it?
KS: Well, it depends on what you like. For me, I liked that time because it was about attitude. It was an attitude change. I thought that the things that were done in the ring were definitely more stiff and it was more aggressive and it was an attitude brought into that competition of that company. And I believe it started with myself, Brett Hart, and Stone Cold Steve Austin; in that match that I refereed. I believe that changed the tide. It changed the face of wrestling where people realized it’s okay to go in there and hit somebody and land something. They can’t take it, they can get out of the kitchen. It was fun. That was a good time. I believe people were proud to watch wrestling. They weren’t closet wrestling fans anymore. They came out and was like, “Hey, yeah, I watch wrestling,” because it was so much of an attitude. It was so stiff that people saw the blood and saw the bruises and the bumps that these guys were taking. So when Brett Hart and Stone Cold did that match, they beat each other up. No one could deny that that match was legit.
PC: And I think in both sports, it’s starting to be more character driven than actual substance.
KS: Yeah and I think there is also a line you gotta be careful there too because you can do too much. I love Conor McGregor. I love what he has done for the company and for MMA. I think it’s second to none. He’s done a great job. He’s a smart guy and he’s doing things right. He is somewhat of a character though, but in his case, which is a rare case, it works for him. I really believe that pro wrestling is taking on the identity of the people that’s running it. When Vince was running it, he had an idea that he wanted to make it more like, “Up yours, we’re going to do what we want.” He liked that attitude and that’s what you got out of that. But now it’s more of the Hunter Hurst and Stephanie show to where it’s more flamboyant and pretty. They want to be more of a catwalk or a runway and there is not a whole lot of aggressive stuff going on in there anymore. So it depends on what you like, like I said. It’s apples and oranges. It’s still wrestling, it’s still big, and it’s still entertaining. It just depends on what you like. You like the aggressive style and the Attitude Era style or do you like more of the runway type of flashy, flamboyant, long hair and flip it back and hit them with a few chops, a close line, and cover them type of style.
PC: Always a pleasure and an honor speaking with you. Let everyone know how they could listen to “The World’s Most Dangerous Podcast!”
KS: You can go to www.dangerouspodcast.com and click on ITunes and listen to our show. We got one out already. We talk about a lot of stuff and we are really excited to be able to reach out to the fans and stay in touch with them and let them know that we are paying attention to things going on in the world. And if anyone just wants to check out my site, go to www.kenshamrock.com. I have all of my social media sites on there. Come join us, man, and be a part of the family.
[ Follow Percy Crawford on Twitter @MrLouis1ana ]