"The organizations don't matter the most. The promoters don't matter in terms of we, the sports fan, care for as far as competition sake. It's about having the best fighters fighting one another. Now, if the best fighters happen to fight one another on one platform and it happens to be the UFC or whomever else is promoting fights, then that's terrific, but I think we're getting to the point where politics are getting involved and promoters are stopping fights from happening," stated Josh Gross, former editor of Sherdog.com and writer for Sports Illustrated. Check out what else he had to say as he shares his thoughts on Fedor Emelianenko, Brock Lesnar, Roger Huerta, Dana White, the current state of mixed martial arts and much more.
PC: Congrats on your new post at Sports Illustrated. Did you ever think you would go this far in covering this sport?
JG: I don't know if I ever thought I would make it this far because I didn't know how far mixed martial arts would go, but that's not why I covered MMA. I covered MMA because I believed in it, I loved it and it was an avenue to do some journalism. It was just a great opportunity and the fact that a great organization like SI is covering the sport speaks volumes about how far it's come.
PC: The popularity of mixed martial arts is through the roof right now. You've covered this sport for a very long time. Did you think it would make it to this stage?
JG: I did. It's big right now and I think it still has room to grow. There are talks of "is it mainstream, is it not mainstream?" I think it's approaching mainstream, but I don't think we've seen coverage around single fights like we have in boxing yet. I do believe we're headed in that direction. I always thought that mixed martial arts would get to this level because it captivated the audience. It was a sport like any other and it was just about educating people and making them understand what they were watching and when that started to happen, I felt the sport would grow to the mass in demand of the fans.
PC: With the growth of the sport, there've been some mixed feelings about viewing mixed martial arts on CBS. What's your take on it?
JG: I think it's tremendous that the sport is on CBS. That's one of the things we talked about with the growth of the sport. Five years ago, I don't know if it was imaginable if someone would have said the sport was going to be on primetime network television. That fact alone makes it a good thing. I don't agree with the fact that they sugarcoat things if you're talking about the broadcast video or the fights themselves, but I think Gus Johnson, Mauro and Frank Shamrock do a great job of broadcasting the sport and showing the way it should be and they're critical when they need to be and that's an important thing. But I also think, outside of a lot controversy regarding Kimbo Slice and some of the issues Gina Carano has had, for the most part, the fights have been compelling. They don't necessarily feature the best in the world, but we've seen before that great fights can happen by someone that's not necessarily ranked in the top 10. When you match top 10 fighters, those are the more meaningful ones. Those are the ones that have some longevity and people talk about for a long time, will be relevant for a long time, and those are the ones they're going to have to promote.
PC: Where you surprised that the IFL didn't make it?
JG: I took a wait-and-see approach with the IFL. I didn't necessarily think that their business model was one that MMA fans would take to, but they weren't necessarily marketing for the hardcore audience. They wanted to attract a different kind of audience. I went to a few of those IFL fights and there was something to the team concept when it came down to it. I'm a huge sports fan and it's always been about competition and sports for me and that's why I've always loved MMA because it's a true test of competition. There was some of that in the building in places like Portland and the Quad Cities, but their business model wasn't very effective. I didn't like them changing the rules of mixed martial arts. I dint think they needed to drop to 4 minute rounds. I thought the lack of elbows changed some of the dynamics of a fight and mixed martial arts has been changed to where that could take away from some of the effects and I didn't think that was a good thing.
PC: We now have Affliction, EliteXC and Dream as kind of the other organizations. Do you think, in most fans minds, it's UFC or bust still or are they finally realizing that there's plenty of talent that can be distributed through these other organizations?
JG: I think there is a tremendous amount of talent in mixed martial arts; we're talking about a global sport. There could be a fighter somewhere right now training in a gym somewhere that we've never heard of that could be the next Fedor Emelianenko or the next Georges St. Pierre. I think for the sport to grow and get to the point where we're talking about, with the best fighters meeting one another, we have to get out of this promotional mindset where the organizations are the things that matter the most.
The organizations don't matter the most. The promoters don't matter in terms of we, the sports fan, care for as far as competition sake. It's about having the best fighters fighting one another. Now, if the best fighters happen to fight one another on one platform and it happens to be the UFC or whomever else is promoting fights, then that's terrific, but I think we're getting to the point where politics are getting involved and promoters are stopping fights from happening. A perfect example is Fedor Emelianenko and Randy Couture. This is a fight that should happen. It's a fight that the fans want to see and it's a fight that's important to the sport. The reason it's not happening is because you have promoters standing in the way of it. You could make the argument that Randy Couture went about it the wrong way; that he burned bridges or that he didn't help in the situation at all, but the fact of the matter is the UFC is doing everything in their power to keep control of Randy and they're not interested in cross-promoting even if they had Randy and that fight was possible. I think the sport needs to avoid those things. It's what plagued boxing and it's what the UFC and Dana have talked so much about, not making mixed martial arts like boxing, but unfortunately, we don't always get to see the best fighters against one another and that's gotta happen if the sports going to continue to grow.
PC: Does it surprise you any that Roger Huerta, who it appeared the UFC were trying to market as their Oscar De La Hoya, is going through a similar situation as Randy with the UFC?
JG: The fighter's job, number one, is to compete and win fights. If you do that, at some point, you're going to get enough leverage whether you're thought of as a marketable fighter or not. And Jon Fitch is a perfect example of that. You're going to get a perfect opportunity to compete within an organization if you work your way up the ladder. I think it took some guts for Roger to speak out the way he did. He put himself out in the line and he came up short so he's going to have to pay the price for that. I think there are going to be fighters along the way that voice their opinion and that's an important thing. We were talking earlier about promotions and I think it's important that fighters have other avenues and places they can go. The competition amongst promoters is really important for paydays and growth of the fighters in terms of making a living and, not just making a living, but getting paid what they're worth. And you can define that any way you want and it should be measured, in some ways, to the success of the card that they're on. If a guy like Roger Huerta felt like he was doing a lot of things that helped the UFC grow and pushed the sport and the UFC, and he was, but you know what, you gotta compete to win and the fact that he didn't beat Kenny Florian really trumps any argument that he had that he should be getting paid more.
PC: It appears we will see Brock Lesnar and Cheick Kongo fight each other next and the winner will probably be in line for a title shot. What are your thoughts on Brock as a fighter?
JG: I think he is extremely talented. Physically, there's not anyone like him that I can recall. I remember watching his K-1 fight at the LA Coliseum and coming away very impressed by him. Look, he's a guy with 3 fights; he is someone who, if he can progress, can be a major force in the heavyweight division, especially inside the UFC right now. They have a lot of young heavyweights coming up and a couple of established ones, including an all-time great like Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira. I think the verdict hasn't been called yet, but you're talking about a guy that works extremely hard and is a tremendous athlete and he's going to get a huge promotional push. I think he has a lot of advantages moving forward, but I'm not going to anoint him "The Second Coming." His 3 opponents have been a natural progression for a fighter with his experience, but you're talking about the Herring fight and Herring is really not a good wrestler. It was a tailor made fight for Lesnar. Jake O' Brien did the exact same thing to Herring. I think there are a lot of questions to be answered about Lesnar, but there is no doubt that he is on a career path right now that's going to put him in the forefront and he's going to be a major promotional force for the UFC.
PC: Back when you were the editor of Sherdog, you used that forum to write an open letter to Dana White. It prompted a response from Dana and a lot of fan input. What was your purpose for the letter going at Dana?
JG: You gotta remember, I wrote that in the aftermath of Sean Sherk and Hermes Franca testing positive for steroids. It didn't really have anything to do with attacking Dana White or the UFC. I think anybody can recognize the importance of the UFC, Dana White, Lorenzo and Frank Fertitta to the importance of the growth of mixed martial arts; they've been instrumental, but the fact of the matter is Dana always held the hands off approach on the matter of steroids. I can remember having conversations with him back when he would still talk with me and he didn't think it was necessarily his place to do anything about it. I look at it differently. If he's the head of the biggest organization in mixed martial arts and the most relevant organization in mixed martial arts, then it was his place to do something about that. The image of fighters testing positive for steroids, and champions, and it's not just Sherk, it has happened to other fighters inside the UFC, the sport will take a big hit when you look at what steroids have done to other sports. Steroids were a huge impact on baseball. Baseball had over a 100-year history in America. It was America's sport and pastime and as quickly as mixed martial arts is growing, it seems like something to stop that growth pretty quickly. I felt like Dana White, in particular, should have addressed it. I have never had a problem expressing myself or my beliefs. I never really felt I went after Dana White. I went after everybody I thought needed to be criticized and also commended people that deserved praise in my opinion. My opinion isn't the only opinion. There are a lot of people that have an opinion that are worthwhile. That's why I wrote it. Did I know it would garner all of the attention it did? Probably not. I actually wrote it the night before I went on my first vacation in four years. I had no idea what it was, but it was something that I felt I needed to say.
PC: Did it serve its purpose in your eyes?
JG: I think there was a lot more attention paid to steroids and the affects of steroids. If anything, the regulatory bodies really stepped up if you want to talk about what the state of California has done and places like Nevada as well. I think in the aftermath of that, the UFC talked about testing overseas and making sure the fighters are clean and recognizing that this was not acceptable. I'm not going to say because of my letter, things changed, but because of the discussion within the sport, and the discussion had been taking place for a long time, not just in the aftermath of what I wrote, that there has been some change and positive movement in that direction.
PC: Who do you have as your top 3 pound-for-pound and if possible, could you rank them for me?
JG: My top 3, in no particular order, is Anderson Silva, Georges St. Pierre and Fedor Emelianenko. If I had to rank them right now, it's Anderson Silva, Georges St. Pierre and then Fedor Emelianenko. I'm not doing that based on skill. I'm looking at what they've done record-wise. I know that the loss to Matt Serra is a knock to St. Pierre and if that loss hadn't happened, I think I would put him at number one right now. The guys that he's beaten in the division and the way he's done it has been incredible. Anderson Silva has been dominant as well and Fedor was my number one pound-for-pound for years, but his inactivity dropped him down that list. I still think he has some answers to cash out moving forward. If he's dominant against the winner of Andrei Arlovski and Josh Barnett, he can definitely make the case that he's the best in the world.
PC: Josh, I appreciate your time my man. I couldn't think of anyone more deserving of this promotion to SI. Is there anything you want to say in closing to your Sherdoggers?
JG: I appreciate all of the love from the Sherdoggers. I still get emails from them every day. I get a lot of emails about my podcast. Believe me, it's something that I'm working on. I don't want to just do it and put something out there that's not going to be good. Everything I've tried to do, I do it to the best of my ability so whenever it's ready and I put it out there, I hope people give me the opportunity and keep listening to me. Always appreciate the sport.
